comment on comment :)

I got some feedback! :) Weee!

Devil Mood wrote:
You have a point about the buddist attitude. I found
myself thinking about their search for peace at all costs many times and
thinking either that it was GREAT, or that it was just not how it should be
done.At least psychologicaly, it can't be good to bottle everything up, can it?
I mean, I know they don't bottle, they transcend...but transcending isn't human.
It's Pisces (sorry, bad joke hehe) If everyone was Buddist and tried to
transcend we'd still be living in caves and hunting, do you realize?


Waterviolet:
YeS!
The buddhist perspective is helpful to a degree. I think it's very useful to the western materialists who are excessively incarnated, are too stressed and without a real understanding of their spiritual dimension. As Nuno M. puts it "we've killed a God that we need and replaced it with half a brain" thus leading to where we are as a western culture. People are too inmeshed in their own little problems, their belly button is the center of their world, and it's so easy to be overwhelmed living like this when you're so inside things. Things which are maya = the illusion of forms.
If you try to understand a painting that is too close to your eyes, all you perceive is a blur. On the other hand, if you are on top of a mountain looking down, it's very easy to see the roads, figure a way out of the labiryinth. Detaching and knowing you are an eternal spirit on an earthly journey gives us the right perspective which is somewhat detached from the illusion that the forms are as real as we are, to the point that they could affect us, kill us (our bodies and souls), this is the Illusion that keeps people from being at peace and etc.

But other then that it can sound very extreme. The idea we shouldn't be attached to anything at all. And not suffer or feel any extreme feelings at all....

Someone said that we have to incarnate because God didn't figure out any other way to teach us something (don't remember what the exact thing was unfortunatly, but it is implied next ->) . Only when we are confronted with the tension of a polarized reality is when we have the chance to create, make something new. Be alchemysts. Be God. Make choices, create harmony from conflict. So it is important to be here. instead of just meditating on a monastery and pretending we're not here, life is not happening.

This extreme position problably has a role to play. It seems to suit some people. But I think most use it as an escape from themselves problably. To burry their turmoils. To refuse incarnation. Not the buddhists from the orient, I have a feeling they are spiritualy mature enough to have figured how to balance both spiritual and material dimensions. But westerners. new agers have this problem. And problably some of the message of the orient has been lost in translation, westerners can't be expected to do any better if that's the case. We'd do well to keep to our own religious traditions perhaps. I think we don't because we have emotionally and intelectually developed some aversion to it. Another bad consequence of attachment. The orient seems pretty cool to me. But it is a hugely different culture that would take a lifetime for us to understand. The translation problems are inevitable. Plus they're not always too keen on letting westerners learn about they're culture, as people who have learned Reiki might have heard. And they are right......I feel divided thinking this. because i understand both sides. orientals being aware westerners will mess it up because they don't have the ability to really understand what they're about, on the other side, westerners being fascinated by oriental wisdom and being so tired of their own spiritual traditions, having had a too personal bad experience with it most times. Even when orientals want to teach, like the Dalai Lama, it's still hard to translate a culture. Especially to new agers.... which are very eager but not very willing to dig deep, too used to instant and superficial things. These are mostly wounded and tired people looking for (instant) illumination. I don't blame them, but all this doesn't amount to a great situation in the spiritual scene these days. I won't get into that. I think I embody new agers, totally, I empathize and I understand we are expressing a phase in the spiritual evolution of society. I honestly don't see a better way to do this then to be a new ager. Which I could define as someone opened to new ways of thinking, curious, spiritualy famished, and not used to old, ancient cultures and languages, making them not too aware of the context of things and they're full meaning. But it is this openness, and inherent confusion, that will lead to whatever good will come in the future. It's the age of Aquarius. Aquarius is co ruled by saturn. That's what's lacking in us new(uranus) agers (saturn). :)
structure...discernment, that only comes from wisdom and experience. This is too new yet.

Spirituality can be an escape just as drugs and alcohol are, if that's what you want it to be. Depends on what people look for. Truth/direction/purpose or easy escape/instant confort/glamour goals. Don't want to use "ego goals", as that makes ego sound like a bad thing and I don't think it is at all. Having an ego is being incarnated. As I've been mentioning in these lasts posts and comments to posts, this is something I think I need to learn in this lifetime, to be here, be incarnated, be here in body mind and emotions. feel things. react to them. have boundaries. So I have alot of respect for people that do this well.

Doing this well is the basis for a healthy/solid personality structure. I notice lots of saturn words here :) boundaries, structure, respect, learning. Definatly being incarnated is about being saturnized.

The following is is from http://www.astro.com/mtp/mtp12_e.htm

"When Mind and Body are combined, they form the cross of matter"

Both jupiter and saturn have this cross and have the curve that symbolyzes the soul. But jupiter has the soul on top of the cross, and saturn has the cross on top of the soul:

"The symbols for the next pair of planets, Jupiter and Saturn, concern the
relationship between the soul and body. With Jupiter, the soul is elevated
over the cross of matter, signifying the importance of finding a meaningful
connection (soul), ‘something to live for’ in the manifest world. Jupiter
frees the soul from the dominance of matter. With Saturn, the cross of
matter is elevated over the soul, signifying that the soul’s yearnings must
be given shape and form within the limitations of existence in time and
space"
Being incarnated is partly about being limited in time and space.
The symbols are really fascinating, aren't they?

Symbols are complicated things since, as Jung observed, they can never be
fully interpreted - they can only be experienced. Symbols transcend the
split between the rational and the irrational, the known and the unknown.
in Astro.com